Aug 2021 Minutes

Approved Minutes Carron Valley & District Community Council
Wednesday 4 August 2021 meeting, via TEAMS @ 7.30pm


Margaret Porter, Councillor, MP Peter Hayward, Chair PH
Dorothy Breckenridge, Sec, DB David Petch, Councillor, DP
Nicolas Sinclair, Treasurer, NS Sara Smith, Councillor, SS
Morag Holdsworth, resident, MH Scott Farmer, elected rep, SF
Andy Gallacher, FLS, AG Iain Macfarlane, resident, IM
Margaret Porter, Councillor, MP Helen Bang, clerk, HB


  1. Introductions and welcome

    1. The Chair welcomed everyone to the meeting

    2. Conflicts of interest – none declared.

    3. Apologies – PC Ross Barclay, PC Pam King


    4. Items raised by members of the public – the rave.

      MH - contradiction in police saying there was nothing they could do to move 100
      people from Edinburgh on.


      A lot came up by taxi so could call taxis to take them away again. The human waste
      left on the island the next day was appalling. They tidied up bottles, cans, BBQs.
      They arrived in BMWs, Range Rovers, Porsches – so-called respectable people
      from Edinburgh coming to area and treating it as a toilet. MH felt they tidied up litter
      because of police presence. Feels it’s becoming bandit country.


      Suggestions. Use the media – Stirling Observer? Ask them to run a story. But
      wouldn’t reach people in Edinburgh. TV?


      ACTION SF will raise this with senior officers. It has been unusual times owing to
      Covid. Nightclubs will shortly be open in the cities again.


      SS - raves are not unusual in the CV – they were happening even well before Covid.
      Some people attending have keys to access gates – John de Graham and Cairnoch
      are well-known sites.


      MH – her relatives’ bins are filled up with visitors’ rubbish. She takes a trailer of other
      peoples’ rubbish to Polmaise every fortnight. DP’s bins are also filled with visitors’


      DB – notices should put put onto cars about the amount of excrement from 100+
      people. Leaflets about responsible use of the countryside are available from
      Mountaineering Scotland.


    5. Andy Gallacher – Forestry Land Scotland.


      1. Carpark – shared image. See Appendix I. Originally was going to develop car park.
        Junction going up to Todholes Farm. However, it has now been designated as
        important birch woodland by NatureScot for priority habitat.


        Heading west along B818. Another entrance beside old filter station. Shaded purple
        and pink areas. Looking to develop these to link in with main forest road.


        Just wanted to broach this with community to see response.

        Draft minutes CVDCC meeting 7 July 2021

        PH/DB this is just outwith CC area. Between Fintry and ourselves. Fully support a
        new carpark. Local residents are the main concern. Issues with carparks being open


        DP – likes the idea but would like to see them shut at night.


      2. AG – unfortunately there are plant health issues – tree diseases being spread
        rapidly. One is Larch disease (Phytophthora ramorum) Large areas of the CV have
        been affected by this. There has been a lot of felling going on, there will be more to
        get rid of diseased trees. Airborne fungus which is spread but can be transported
        on bikes, footwear and vehicles. Trying to have some biosecurity measures.


        Main haul routes will come down to Todholes access and back through Denny or
        from main car park and out through Denny. Will not use the C10.


        No specific timescale at present.


      3. Burned out cars – have to wait for insurance companies to release vehicles before
        they can be moved on. It’s worth noting that it has been 6-7 years since a car was
        burned out here.


      4. Locking the car parks. AG locked carpark when lived here for 20 + years. With
        number of people using it now it could take 2 hours to move people on. Enforcement
        under Scottish outdoor access code, power has been removed. Would have to
        approach NatureScot again to look at this code.


      5. DP – camera surveillance to pick up other vehicles is required. AG there is camera
        footage from Clan Ranald with a vehicle associated with the car burning on it.


        PH can FLS put a video camera in? VRG may contribute to cost.


        AG would be happy to discuss this. There is a section that deals with cameras.


        DP – if a car set alight set fire to forestry land it could cause a great deal of
        destruction especially as things are tinder-dry at present.


        AG - Communities would need to ask to have access code re-evaluated.


        AG there are additional barriers within the carpark to prevent actually accessing the
        main forest tracks.


      6. MH – spoke to some ravers on Saturday end of July. Majority were from Edinburgh.
        Had no concept, thought they could do what they wanted in the countryside. There
        was a small campfire that had spread 4 metres into the peat. Fire service had to


        SS - at the rave weekend before they had travelled from Leeds.


        MH's property is now the delivery address for take-aways for people camping at the


      7. AG – sits on anti-social group for Loch Lomond. Gets phone calls from public
        reporting incidents. Contacting the police on 101 – the more individuals who contact


        Draft minutes CVDCC meeting 7 July 2021

        the police the more incident numbers there are. Have to ask for an incident number.
        This would escalate the problem.


        SF – chairs public safety committee – police react to intelligence in an area. The
        more incidents recorded - this flags up where to deploy resources.


        PH our community police must be aware of what is going on. AG – local officer has
        to beg, borrow or steal car to get to CV area. Too few vehicles available.


        The Chair thanked AG for his contribution.


      8. MP – something should go in the next newsletter to advise residents what action to
        take. ACTION HB.


        DP is there anything SC could do? SF it’s a police matter. Most resources are being
        taken up by drug use in urban areas.


        DP – boy racers is an ongoing issue. If he calls 101 it takes 19 + minutes to log call.
        Cars long gone by then.


        AG wanted to thank community for putting up defibrillators. FLS have link to all
        defibrillators available across the area. PH thanks to VRG for funding it and MP for
        persistence in getting them.


        AG left the meeting at this point.


  2. Community Police report

    1. PC Pam King and PC Ross Barclay could not attend but will take note of comments.
      Attached as Appendix II


  1. Facebook moderation policy


    1. Carron Valley Connections group was set up a few years ago for residents of the
      area. Recently there have been a couple of posts which had to be taken down.


      NS this was discussed at VRG Board meeting. VRG does not wish to appear to
      have ownership of this Facebook group.


      DP – does not condone content of the post that raised concerns. However censoring
      opinions is problematic.


    2. It was agreed to set group rules and post a respectful reminder that this is a public
      forum. Text to be agreed with the Chair. ACTION HB.


  1. Minutes of previous meeting on 7 July 2021

    1. Correct day of meeting.
      Proposed DP. Seconded PH.


    2. ACTION HB send approved July minutes to DB for Stirling Council.


      Draft minutes CVDCC meeting 7 July 2021

  2. Matters arising - Actions from previous meeting on 7 July:


    1.2 Elected representatives to be asked re non-attendance DB

    SF. Christine Simpson and himself had a discussion, thought Neil Benny was going
    to attend.

    A rota is now in place. Hopes will get attendance from now on. Wednesdays have
    clashed with Scottish Government meetings about Covid.


    PH feel cut off from SC – used to have Pam Campbell who linked CC with correct
    person in council. Now have system with Stephen Bly who redirects emails via CC
    enquiries. ‘Email has been sent on, this matter is now closed.’ Email footer is not


    3.2 Approved June minutes to DB for Stirling Council HB done

    7.1 Roads issues to be sent via portal PH done

    8.2 Request £1000 towards newsletters/website NS done

    11.1 Investment Fund proposal agreed DB done


    5.2 Community meeting space – draft report and plan See Appendix III


    DB at this stage it’s a request to go to community consultation. It has been on
    hold owing to Covid and prices have now gone up as construction industry costs
    have increased owing to Brexit and Covid. Demographics of community has
    changed – new houses, new families. The work of the group so far has been in
    response to the last consultation. We need to see what the community wants.


    An example of usefulness, Robb Memorial Run – have used Duncarron facilities in
    the past but are not available this year so have asked to co-ordinate from Woodland
    this year so it would have been good to have an indoor space available for them.


    NS – VRG Board had a full discussion at August meeting. Of the two proposals, one
    building with community involvement had a good budget, but it was not a unanimous
    decision. Some Directors had reservations, and others wanted more time to study
    the documentation.The base’s location and security were both issues which were


    MP. There was some community consultation some time ago but this will now be
    out of date. Community build proposal makes price more attractive. Just wonder if
    there is the capacity in the community to manage this sort of project. Residents
    might be asked what skills they could bring to further the project.


    PH – money should be distributed within the community, a community build would
    help this.


    SS wanted to record her opposition to going ahead with the consultation as a
    member of the CC as there has not been enough time to review the documents.


    MP – re ‘conflicts of interest’ between people who are both VRG Directors and CC
    members, it has always been the case that their vote has been allowed.


  3. Chair’s report [PH]

    1. Nothing not covered elsewhere. Feeling cut-off from SC, concerns about anti-social
      behaviour in the valley.

      Draft minutes CVDCC meeting 7 July 2021

    2. Facebook - Carron Valley Connections - ask residents to request an incident report
      number when reporting anti-social behaviour etc. ACTION HB


  4. Secretary’s report [DB]

    1. Access issues – Sauchieburn estate – See Councillor’s report, Appendix IV.
      Access officer has been on annual leave. SF has asked for a briefing note about
      what actions are being proposed for outstanding issues, any feedback from locked
      gate at Old Sauchie and what legal advice has been provided and timelines for
      enforcement given landowner’s record of obstructive behaviour.


  5. Treasurer’s report [NS].

    1. Balance is £2037.36. £436.08 to take off for 4 grit bins.

      Have requested budget of £1000 from SC for admin, newsletter and website.


  6. Stirling Councillor report (SF)

    1. Attached as Appendix IV


      1. Still in technical recess. First Minister announcement re further relaxation of Covid
        restrictions on 9 August. SC doing phased return – looking at 30% capacity in first


        Covid is still rife in terms of Delta variant. People with vulnerabilities should still be
        exercising extreme caution.


      2. SF has been involved in meetings with potential investors. Possibility of 500 jobs for
        the Stirling area if this comes to fruition.


      3. Spoke with Governance officer – there will be guidance for CCs, giving the option
        to go back to face-to-face meetings but think a hybrid option is the best way forward,
        especially for those with particular vulnerabilities.


  7. Valley Renewables Group report [NS]

    1. Reported that Project Officer, Libi Newell sadly is leaving. In remaining 2 months is
      prioritising work. She will be doing defined project work on individual basis.


      Exit strategy – to ensure sustainability of ongoing projects. Working with Woodland


    2. £25K has been transferred to the Investment Fund.


    3. New website going live next week.


    4. Grants – Falck provided a Covid support fund which was used for Hardship and
      Children’s support. Comments for recipients were very complimentary. Falck now
      offering a post-Covid fund. Two Directors have ideas for applying for this.


    5. PH website – Councillors to send mugshot and resume for Community Council
      section. Please send asap ACTION ALL.


      Draft minutes CVDCC meeting 7 July 2021

  8. VRG Investment Fund [DP]

    £25K was transferred. The fund has performed very well recently - £407,000. 4
    weeks later was £435,000 but this may be temporary.


  9. Woodland Group report [DB]

    1. Scottish Water pipes are still delaying the felling. SS should they speak to Andy
      Gallacher? DB have already done this. Need Scottish Water to sign it off.


    2. A volunteer day was held in July. Constructed a rest home for invertebrates.


      Next onea to be held on Saturday August 14 and Saturday September 18. Wood
      fuel weekend late October. Pomona weekend is the 15-18 October.


    3. Red squirrel project survey started ACTION DB send link to Morag. Saving
      Scotland’s red squirrels.


  10. Roads report (PH)

    1. PH thanks to SC for work on C10 and North Third Road.


  11. Planning report

    1. Section 75 to correct road planning. PH has sent.


  12. AOB

    1. Shelloch. Are we responding to questions? Force 9 have just come back with
      guidance – claim the light on turbine would be barely seen by anyone in the Valley.
      However, feels this is misleading. Would like to see photo montage in daylight to
      see where the blade is. Did not directly address concerns re the height of the


      IM – Stirling Observer today has SC advert in it – impact assessment for Shelloch.


      SF has only just rejoined the planning panel. Will look into impact assessment
      referred to above.


    2. MH – Is there a contact in Scottish Water? Water levels are artificially low. What are
      time scales for getting reservoir wall repaired. ACTION DB.


    3. Road has now been repaired and is in a much better state.


    4. Defibrillators were installed on Tuesday 3 September. CCTV at the cabin would be
      a good idea. Yet to do final briefing, should happen shortly.


      MP has sent information to HB for VRG website. Also for the newsletter. Also there
      is a supply of First Aid booklets not quite enough for each household or could be
      given out after training courses.


  13. Date of next CC meeting – Tuesday 1 September 2021 at 7:30pm via TEAMS.


Draft minutes CVDCC meeting 7 July 2021





Newsletter - mention incident number when reporting crime



Carron Valley Connections - group rules



Approved July minutes to DB for SC



Carron Valley Connections post on incident number



Photo and resume for new VRG website



Red squirrel project info for MH



Scottish Water contact for MH



The meeting closed at 9:15pm



Draft minutes CVDCC meeting 7 July 2021

Appendix I FLS map

Aerial Plan

Appendix II Police Report


Name of

Carron Valley Community Council meeting


Our priorities in the Carron Valley area continue to be Anti-
Social Behaviour, Drug misuse/Drug dealing, Road Safety
and Community Engagement and Reassurance.


Our activity over the last month has been focussed towards
these priorities.




Draft minutes CVDCC meeting 7 July 2021


Crime Reports for Carron Valley from 06/07/21 to


Detected cases: 0


Undetected cases: 3
25/07/21 – Wilful Fireraising

28/07/21 – Fail to Stop and Fail to report road

28/07/21 – Fail to Stop and Fail to report road


Crime Reports: 3


There were 17 calls made to Police for the Carron Valley
area over the stated period. The calls relate to anti-
social behaviour, road traffic matters and assisting
members of the public.



Draft minutes CVDCC meeting 7 July 2021

Incidents of



Police are continuing to patrol North Third on a regular




Please contact PC’s King and Barclay with any
community issues at the email address noted below or
alternatively by calling Tel no. 101.


Appendix III Community Space


Draft minutes CVDCC meeting 7 July 2021

Carron Valley and District Community Meeting Room

As many of you know,Valley Renewables Group (VRG) has been working for several years towards using some of the
Restricted Funds from the Earlsburn and Kingsburn Wind farms to create a Community Meeting Room at Carron
Valley. In 2017 we consulted the community widely around our initial plan for a Community Hub and had sur veys
returned by 62 households (just under 50% of the population). 75% of the responses were in support of developing a
community meeting room, with local people confirming that they would use it for indoor exercise and younger and
older people’s activities in par ticular.


We have since developed our ideas and now have a new proposal and business plan for the community to consider.
This new proposal has changed significantly from the original plans, taking into account the feedback we received from
the original sur vey and to bring the project in at more reasonable cost.We are also ver y aware that we are facing a
changing environment, with Covid -19 restrictions having a lasting effect on our lives and affecting the way we will
socialise in the future.We have developed a comprehensive community consultation plan, which we will launch shortly.
We will use this to gather feedback and assess support for the new Community Meeting Room, enabling us to make an
informed decision about the way forward.


The new plan proposes using a steel container based structure to create a modest and cost effective Meeting Room at
the Community Woodland site. This would provide a warm, dry space with a porch, small kitchenette and toilets. It
would seat approximately 30 people in rows, 24 around tables, or be suitable for an activity class of around 15 people.


Image of wooden building

The Community Meeting Room would:


Create a multipurpose meeting space for the
Carron Valley and District community.


Provide a catalyst for new groups and activities to
set up in the community.


Reduce social isolation and improve mental


Be sustainable environmentally, socially and


The business plan clearly lays out the operational plans for management and maintenance of the Meeting Room, which
would be led by the Meeting Room Group of VRG.These include governance, staff and volunteer management, policies
and procedures, cleaning and maintenance, bookings, access and security, promotion and letting and charging policy.


If we buy the containers ready conver ted and fitted out from a repurposed container supplier, the cost is £114,680 to
put the Community Meeting Room in place, including heating and lighting, provision of drinking water, complete fit out
and VAT. The alternative is for us to mount a ‘community build’. Cost-wise this is a much better option as we could
reduce VAT (20%) and the supplier’s profit (15%). This would give us the opportunity to bring the cost in at about

£80,000 also controlling the build quality and the cost. However, this would need us to project manage the build,
arranging and paying suppliers and contractors, and managing the work on site. But by involving the community’s
talents and working together we could create a facility for ever yone’s benefit and enjoyment.


The financial estimates for income and expenditure show that the Community Meeting Room can cover its running
costs with a modest contribution from VRG each year (£2,500 to £1,000 on a sliding scale).This enables the Meeting
Room to be accessed by ever yone in the community for no more than a £1 contribution towards running costs per
person per visit, making it an affordable and sustainable option for all.


Ever yone over 16 will have an opportunity to express an opinion on the project in a full community consultation
during September. A final decision to proceed or not will be taken by the VRG Board and Community Council in early
November. If the community is in agreement, we can progress these plans and commence the project in 2022, putting
the Meeting Room in place for spring 2023.


Valley Renewables Group July 2021


Draft minutes CVDCC meeting 7 July 2021

Appendix IV Councillor’s Report


Carron Valley Community Council Councillors Report August 2021

As of week ending 30/7 Stirling COVID 19 rate was 170.1 per 100,000 and a test positivity
rate of 6.0%. Clackmannanshire is at 169.6 per 100,000 with a test positivity rate of 5.5%
with Falkirk sitting at 143.2 per 100,000 and a test positivity rate of 4.2%.

The above has seen an improvement on the previous week where Stirling was at 174.3
per 100,000 and a test positivity rate of 6.6%. Clackmannanshire was at 222.3 per
100,000 and a test positivity rate of 6.9% with Falkirk on 231.1 per 100,000 and a test
positivity rate of 7.3%.

This illustrates that the virus is very much among us and those with vulnerabilities should
exercise a degree of caution in staying safe. The current hotspots within the Stirling
Council area are Fallin, Blane Valley and Borestone.

Vaccination and testing has significantly reduced the adverse clinical effects on people
and work is ongoing to encourage uptake especially amongst the young. In Stirling first
dose uptake for those 18 years and over is 68,424 89.1% with Scotland wide sitting at
89.6%. Second doses for 18 years and over for Stirling is 56,477 73.5% Scotland wide
sitting at 70.6%.

Council is in technical recess although update meetings continue virtually. I have been
involved in engaging with potential investors that show some encouraging signs.
Economic and Social recovery will be at the centre of our focus as we move into recovery
phase and we have to recognise that some difficult times lie ahead.

In terms of area specific issues I have been approached with regard to potential amenity
issues at Carron Valley fisheries. Concerns were raised over an alleged traveller’s
encampment and the siting of caravans, containers and scrap. Planning Enforcement
Officers spoke to the owner of the site who has a caravan on site due to alleged illegal
fishing activities. Planning has informed the individual that the caravan requires Planning
permission and have requested a retrospective Planning application be lodged. There
was to be a follow up visit to the site on the 29/7 to determine if a Planning application is
deemed necessary for the containers that are at present storing materials in relation to
the business.

I have also been approached by a resident regarding ongoing access issues at Sauchie
Estate. Further clarification was sought with the access Officer especially with regards to
a locked gate that is in breach of the minute of agreement and she has undertaken to
write to the land owner with regard to these matters. I will be following up with Angela for
a progress report that I will follow on with regards to how we can move forward with
resolving the outstanding matters and the status of any legal advice to date.


Cllr Scott Farmer


Draft minutes CVDCC meeting 7 July 2021