Jan 2021 Minutes

We’ve removed some links from this page because they’re no longer active. You can still find these links in the PDF version.


held on online
Wednesday 13.01.21 at 7.30 pm


Attendance: Peter Lloyd PL, Mary Dickie (MD), Donnie Watson (DW), Rob Davies
(RD), Henry Braid (HB),David Armstrong (DA), Margaret Firth (MF), Graham Lambie
(GL), Plus 4 residents CB,SM,EM,LA


  1. Apologies - Willie Nisbet (WN), Pam Campbell (PC)


  2. Previous Minutes- Approved DW, Seconded MD


  3. Police Report – HB

    Forth and Endrick, Croftamie Community Council- January 2021 - Compiled by PC
    Steven Graham


    Hope everyone stayed safe and has a pleasant Festive Period.

    There is an ongoing dispute between a tenant and a landlord at Edmond Terrace,
    Croftamie. There have been no one charged however advice has been given to the
    parties concerned.


    On 21st November 2020 there was a report of a suicidal male from the Glasgow area
    on the A811. Male traced by Police in a wooded area between Balloch Road end
    and Kilmaronock Church. Male was safe and well and taken to hospital for a mental
    health assessment.


    Road Safety


    Local officers have and will continue to carry out high visibility patrols to improve
    road safety.


    We’re aware that speeding is an issue within the village. Hand held radar was
    carried out recently and this will carry on.


    Prepare for the winter by keeping your vehicle well maintained before you take to the

    Take special care that brakes, tyres, lights, batteries, windscreens and wiper blades
    are in good condition. In addition, washer bottles need to contain an additive to stop
    the water from freezing.

    Tyres should also be checked weekly to ensure they are legal and at the correct
    pressure (consult your vehicle handbook). The minimum legal tread depth for cars is
    1.6mm across the centre 3/4 of the breadth of the tread around the entire
    circumference. They should also be checked for bulges, cuts or tears which weaken
    the tyre. Failure to maintain your tyres could lead to a maximum of £2,500 fine and 3
    penalty points per tyre.

    Please ensure that vehicle windscreens are defrosted and you have a full view of the
    road ahead prior to driving off. On that note, please do not defrost the windscreen by
    leaving your engine running unattended on the road or driveway.



    There have been no thefts reported in the Croftamie area however on 30/12 there
    were 2 incidents of items being stolen from vehicles left unattended.


    There was also a recent housebreaking to a commercial premises in Killearn.
    Enquiries are continuing,


    All incidents in relation to suspicious persons or vehicles are welcomed and Police
    will attend to all these incidents immediately. We urge people to remain vigilant and
    report anything suspicious.


    With the earlier dark nights here soon we have the potential for daytime
    Housebreakings which unfortunately have been a seasonal trend in the past. We
    remind residents to be ever vigilant and contact the Police should anyone see
    anything suspicious. Please remember to follow basic home security rules and help
    to make it make it harder for the thieves.


    Please consider the following:


    • Use timer switches on lights and radios to make it look as if your home is occupied.


    • Ensure all doors and windows are secure when you leave and when you go to bed.


    • If possible use secure lighting at the front and back of your property.


    • Make sure all garden tools and ladders are locked away when not being used. Don’t give the
      thieves the tools to break into your house.


    • Use a good quality lock on any garden sheds and outhouses.


    • Make a note of all makes, models and serial numbers of expensive items in your home.


    • If your house is fitted with an alarm then please use it. This is a good deterrent should thieves
      manage to force entry to your house.


    • Create a FREE and secure inventory of all your personal property at www.immobilise.com


    • If you note anything suspicious in your neighbourhood report it on 101.

      There are guides on the Police Scotland website giving other ideas to protect property in rural areas:


      There have recently been calls of suspected fraud in the Croftamie and Drymen
      areas. Neither were acted on therefore no frauds were actually committed however
      these attempts are frequent and varied.


      Fraudsters can make contact with you by phone. The caller might pretend to be from
      your bank and ask for personal information such as bank details or they might be
      someone offering you a deal or a prize. Recently calls have been made by a “debt

      collector” letter saying money was owed to PayPal. This was not the case. Please
      heed the following:


    • Consider making your phone number ex-directory.


    • Don’t give out any personal information unless you are the one who made the call and you
      are certain of the identity of the person you are speaking to.


    • Don’t give out your credit card or bank card details to strangers on the telephone.


    • NEVER tell somebody your bank PIN number, even if they claim to be the bank or police.
      If the caller is genuine they will never ask for this information.


    • Don’t give out information which may infer that you live alone, are older or vulnerable.


    • Never send money to anyone who claims to have a prize for you.

    • If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.


    • Contact local trading standards – they may be able to use approved ‘call blocking’



    Some criminals are using the pandemic as an opportunity to trick people into parting
    with their money or information.


    In some cases people are urged to “take advantage of the financial downturn”, using
    emails and social media platforms to advertise fake investment opportunities in
    cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin. Others include criminals offering their assistance
    with Universal Credit applications, while taking some of the payment as a fee for
    their “services”.


    It’s important to remember that criminals are experts at impersonation, using official
    branding and language used by trusted organisations and government departments
    to convince you their emails are genuine. These may include offering you or your
    business a government grant or a reduction in your council tax with links contained
    leading to fake websites designed to obtain your personal and financial information.



    Be alert to the potential for scam messages purporting to offer coronavirus vaccines,
    or asking for payment for vaccinations. This can be in the form of a text message
    suggesting people are eligible for the coronavirus vaccine. Never click on a link in a
    message you're not expecting, and remember the NHS will never ask you for money
    relating to the COVID-19 pandemic.


    The Take Five to Prevent Fraud campaign can be seen on the Police Scotland
    website and features a range of tips on how to protect yourself from fraudsters and
    avoid falling victim to scam attempts.



    Community Engagement and Reassurance

    It is important to you to have community officers who you know, who are accessible
    and who address local problems


    PC Steven Graham and PC Gary Martin are based at Balfron Police Office and can
    be contacted at the office, on 101, or at
    ForthEndrickCPT@scotland.pnn.police.uk. It
    is recommended that this email address is used by the local community for email


    Please remember that we regularly publish useful information and updates on social
    media, including appeals for information, updates about road closures and crime
    prevention advice. Our Facebook and Twitter pages can be found at




  4. Planning Report – MD

  5. Roads Update – DW

    Nothing in this area in the next month. DW has complimented the council for
    keeping the A809 clear in the frosty weather. In order to get a grit bin in
    Cattermills, a request should be in the Community Resilience plan.


  6. Treasurer Update – DA


    Balance of Bank account is £ 2514.75. This includes ringfenced funds of £328 for a
    Banner, admin grant of £244.76, PPE £534.58 (total £1107.34). Unrestricted funds
    of £1407.41.

    Meter reading has been provided to SSE but no statement due until March.

    PPE- there is still some that could be given out the Community and we have more
    funds to buy some so if we know of anyone that needs just let PL know.


  7. Stirling Council Update – Councillor Rob Davies

    • There has been a Survey and results will be fed back at the end of January re
      wealth of the Wards in the Council. Financial wealth but also health, facilities
      and amenities etc.

    • Stirling Council Budgets meeting due soon.

    • Feedback from NHS Forth Valley- Covid message is stay at home. Main
      source of virus spreading seems to be Shift workers mixing at work or those
      out for a cigarette. Average age of those dying is over 80. New variant is more
      prevalent. Vaccine being ruled out and is not an instant cure. Even after the
      Vaccine you can still get the disease or infect –but hopefully not so badly so
      we will still have to abide by the rules. Figures are still a worry.

    • Can still drive by and pick up a coffee.

    • Roads- hoping to get side streets gritted

    • When roadworks are started A809 will get priority

    • New Bins have been delivered and no issues with this


      GL confirmed that DY received the conditions for his application re the planning
      application at Finnich Glen -No additional conditions have been issued to those
      already given.


  8. LL&TNP

    There was to be a meeting on line today for 2020 Visitor season in your area -
    East Loch Lomond, 13th Jan 09:00 - 10:30 hrs. But the Meeting was Postponed-
    not enough participants offered to attend due to their working hours. They will


  9. Outstanding points from last meeting


    • Speed Survey in village- PL has chased the Council as PL has told them
      where we would like the speed survey. Pavements to Drymen are shocking
      and PL will highlight the safety issue within his same correspondence.

    • Draft Community Engagement Strategy survey – meeting 19.11.20 MS
      joined in . Survey closed 15.12.20. Looking for experiences of Stirling Council
      idea of consultation good & bad. Eg given was that when the Nursery was
      being closed that the village felt it was fait a complit. Good examples given ie
      Devil’s Pulpit and Dalnair.

    • Concern about the amount of Dog Poo so contact has been made to Stirling
      Council, enforcement team includes Dog Wardens,
      ccenquiries@stirling.gov.uk to see if there could be possibility to be included
      within their patrol area.


      • Rural South West Area Forum Monday 30th November - Presentation City
        Region Deal. PC has taken some actions from the meeting and will feed back to
        us as to how the villages can benefit. Footpaths and cycle tracks could perhaps
        be applied for.


        Rural South West Area Forum Meeting on Monday 30th November at 7.00 pm
        via Microsoft teams

        • Up-date on City Region Deal – Bruce McClure see attachment


        • Key points, basically the Local Communities express concern that we
          basically where not up to date with any of the project and or if they will
          be of benefit for our communities. Hence attached the attached

      • Community Supports Sharing & learning session – Sharon McGrouther.

      • Different communities updated on the ups and downs since last meeting in
        Feb within community

      • Carolyn Wyllie, Head of Community Health & Care at Clackmannanshire &
        Stirling Health & Social Care Partnership the RSWF on the HSCP’s plans to

        conduct a consultation process on the Model of Care provided across rural
        southwest Stirling.

      • Stage 1 – Pre-consultation will run from 7th Dec’20 to 25th Jan ’21,

        Stage 2 – Consultation on the Model of Care will run from 1st Feb ’21 to 15th
        Mar ’21.

      • Clackmannanshire & Stirling Health & Social Care Partnership: Consultation
        on the future delivery of community health and social care across the rural
        southwest Stirling area.


      • Scottish Open Government: Delivering on the Scottish Government'sProgramme of Reforms - on 15th December in the morning.


      • Draft Stirling Council Draft Engagement Strategy – Appendix attached as reference



  10. Correspondence Received - none


  11. Any Other Business

    • MD advised re the yellow lines at Finnich Glen the cost was over £20,000 but
      the fines collected had recouped this sum.

    • As the Community Christmas tree grows taller it will be difficult to reach the top
      of the tree with lights. It was felt that the existing lights were fit for purpose.
      Thanks to those in the village who decorated their gardens. Possibility of a
      competition for this in 2021 and perhaps advent windows.

    • There is a new straw bale in the village. Thanks to James Bilsland for providing
      it and Sean will be planting in it. Any plants can be donated to Sean.

    • Pedestrian crossing in Buchlyvie- DW has asked can we have this? PL has
      added pedestrian crossing to the participation request.

    • FOOD BANK- But and Ben have offered to have a box where donations can
      be left.

      • SM asked re traffic measures- what denotes community? There are 11
        houses between Stockiemuir Farm and Finnich Glen. Is this enough to get a 40
        MPH sign? GL has asked for the camera van to be put on that stretch but it’s
        difficult finding a location for the van to sit. Could a fixed camera be placed
        there? Comparing to Carbeth where there are less houses. PL happy to

Confirmation of next Meeting Wednesday 10.02.2021

Commencing at 7.30 pm online



Draft Community Engagement Strategy – survey was to be completed by 15 Dec 20.

Online meetings held 19 Nov and 2 Dec 20. Minutes from meeting

crosoft Teams Interactive Engagement Session on Stirling Council Draft
Engagement Strategy people fed back, “you had made up your mind that the nursery is
ing closed”. There was a general preconception the decision was made in advance as
the information was slanted and skewed towards why it should be closed. There was no
advocacy for why it shouldn’t be closed. The consultation was being offered, but the
person leading was emphasising why it was being closed. The positive of the
consultation, it got people talking.

Is it not possible for the council to identify an arbitrator, similar to what is used
occasionally in business? Someone who does not have any bias who could act as an
honest broker, who could strive to get the views of all sides, allowing all to have a voice.
The communities may have strong views, but maybe not have the outspoken characters
or wherewithal to make those views heard. Please remember and think more about how
you consult. There is a perceived bias. Think about the tools and processes you use;
ensuring the right decision is made; and all voices heard. A sensible idea, we need to be
careful, the quiet people or those who don’t feel confident, may well be the ones who
may suffer by the decision. An example locally, was when there was a proposal to build
a wall in the Meadows to alleviate flooding. This proposal would support only 10
properties to be protected, others would not get protection, and you have to be confident
to get your voice across; to put your point of view across. The person with the loudest
voice may not be the person most impacted by the decision. Ensure those who are going
to be impacted have their voices heard.

Thursday 19th November 2020 @ 7.00 pm
4 participants; 2 Stirling Council officers.

Q 1) Have you been asked or approached to be involved in a Stirling Council


Can you clarify, are you asking if on a one-to-one basis or on any type of consultation?
We are asking on any consultation that you have participated in.

Q 2) Did you take up the opportunity to get involved in a consultation?


If you said yes

2a) What would you say worked well?

We were consulted on the closure of our nursery. We were engaged and we ultimately
lost, although the community wholeheartedly were against the closure. Everyone felt it
was a foregone conclusion and was going to close anyway. We got the wider
community involved however. At least we got greater involvement and our community
came out with a strong voice and voiced their opinion. When we have had a major
consultation it has allowed people to have a say on numerous occasions, throughout the
meeting Ensure there are more than meetings; as not everyone comfortable speaking in
public; it can be daunting attending a meeting, they can be formal and off putting. The
premises you choose can be daunting. It shouldn’t be, but in reality it is.


  1. If No. 2b) was there something that stopped you getting involved?

  2. 2c) What would you say we could improve?

  3. Start off any project with a communication plan at the same time as your
    consultation plan. Know what is going to happen; know expectations; even if dates
    not pinpointed, you would give the communities ideas that your input will inform and
    their voices matter.

  4. We have taken part in surveys; questionnaires, some better than others, some
    complicated, for example the budget questions. Some surveys/questionnaires are

    difficult to comment on, particularly some aspects which are not clearly detailed, not
    clearly explained and not clear how to provide our feedback on, particularly if you do
    not know the implications of what it will mean. It seemed like putting the cart before
    the horse, as you didn’t know what action points were going to be, that is rather
    frustrating. It is difficult to do feedback on potential proposals, as they may not
    actually be going to happen or not clearly explain what is meant. It is an old problem
    with consultation, if you don’t know what you’re consulting on, you don’t know what
    is being asked, if you ask we need to cut this or this, it is hard to provide feedback
    as unsure as to what is being asked or impacted.

  5. Not clear about what you were being asked to comment on and what the
    implications are or what they would mean. Be honest; advise what the impacts
    would be, if we go down this route this will be the outcome; if we go down route b
    this will be the impact; we need all information to make informed decisions. We
    need more background but not leading information. Be clear about what you’re
    asking, what can we influence or inform, be clear it is a consultation and not
    information giving. Tell us how you have listened to our voices, feedback.

  6. I have been involved in several types of consultations, town consultation for projects;
    surveys; charrette, effectively part of the community action plan. The most recent
    survey was a sustrans one, supported by the council, asking views on the project
    about improving infrastructure of the town centre; it had been predetermined. It
    wasn’t a consultation. There were 5 projects which were allocated priorities, it was
    difficult for you to put something else in, and there was not one for Callander. There
    previously had been but was no longer included, no explanation as to why. We tried
    to advise we needed pavement improvements, but difficult to input, as they were
    predetermined but not relating to our town. Survey needed to be more flexible.

  7. Your consultations are very short; challenging to find on your website; not easy to
    access. Some surveys with less than a fortnight to get your views heard, we need
    time to promote, raise awareness within our communities. A fortnight is not
    sufficient time to get the information out and get people involved. This impacts
    numbers participating, less notice can mean fewer people participating and you may
    not be targeting those who should be involved or those who will be most impacted
    by the outcome. Community consultation meetings are also arranged at too-short
    notice with the similar lack of attendees in many cases due to lack of time to

  8. There is also the consideration of timing of events/session, as if working, the event
    needs to be in the evening, as events during the day are a struggle, as most people
    are working during the day. We do have some individuals, however, who are not
    confident going to events on their own, especially going to an area not familiar with.

  9. Consider accessibility. People have a reluctance to become involved in structures
    that they feel won’t reflect their views. Consider your different channels, are they all
    accessible, including paper; meetings; digital. It is also about the ethos, X gave a
    really good example of the sustrans consultation, it was a white elephant in Raploch,
    as it was a done deal, and it didn’t focus on Drip Road. This was the communities’
    priority. We had conversations with Stirling Council and Sustrans. We did follow up,
    at every stage community members were honest. We believe you are not listening,
    you are doing works in an area that is not a priority and the community do not feel
    the area needs it. There is a significant lack of trust. People feel intimidated and
    importantly, people not feeling listened to. This is a repeated history and complete
    lack of following through.

  10. Involved in 100's but can only count on one hand, the results I have been sent. It’s
    about being listened to and feedback; seeing your views being heard. Some
    information is detailed in a complex manner; present it accessibly, in easy to
    understand language, layman terms. If the information is not accessible this is a
    barrier. Consider equality; how accessible is it for equality groups; support diversity

    and offer open and meaningful consultation. Do not portray or indeed consult if it is a
    done deal. Many people do not have the confidence in taking part. There is poverty
    of aspirations. People do not feel comfortable in the networks. There is not a space
    for people in those networks and they don’t feel there is a space


  12. We feel our problems are that bit more complex, as LLTNP: Bear; SC, we have 3
    differentagencies, all intertwined. It becomes more difficult, we feel we get a raw
    deal; SC asked consultant to do a streetscapes survey, nothing happened about it.
    We are a tourist town, we need to look good, we see the town getting run down, and
    we don’t know what can be done about it. People don’t know how to energise or get
    their priorities higher up the list. Understand it is complicated, have preliminary
    discussions. We hear from other communities, for example in Doune, they believe
    their traffic management plan does not reflect what they said or what they asked for.
    Start by actually listening; show you have listened, clearly say if you can't do what
    community are asking for or feel passionately about, you need to explain why.

  13. 3) What support could be provided to make Stirling Council engagement and
    consultation better?

  14. The key is empowerment, you will get ownership if people are empowered. You
    need ownership to make it work, if people feel they belong and have a say they will
    participate. One of our taglines for recruiting volunteers using social media, as it is a
    popular media: “things get solved when you get involved”, it works. It is the same as
    managing staff, get your staff to work out their own targets, if low you can nudge and
    get encouragement. We do social and economic development, not infrastructure.
    To effect change it takes behavioural change, walking the talk of the community
    empowerment act, it is the heart & minds of those carrying out the consultation.

  15. If you truly want to engage, and put into practice the community engagement act,
    listen to people; get to people where they are at; information is accessible through
    all stages; show how people’s voices have been heard; how it has or hasn’t
    informed or influenced; feedback and value people for giving of their time. If you get
    empowerment, you get ownership and members of the community can change the
    world, nothing is being helicoptered in, ok what needs to happen, what help do you
    need to make it happen in your community. Do not do a top down process, be led
    by the community need. An example of top down, is this engagement, how have
    you involved others; how have you asked your networks to feedback how they
    promote it; how far has this reached and what are the numbers participating.

  16. We sent information on the survey and on the interactive session to all of our
    contacts, approximately a hundred or more. We asked them to share round their
    networks, some fed back they had placed on social media platforms including
    Facebook; websites and promoted through word of mouth at local shops to the shop
    keepers and asked them to promote. We will ask our communication department to
    promote through Stirling council platforms again. We have approximately 24
    surveys completed to date.

  17. When will you feedback or provide us with notes on this evening’s session and of
    the collated input from the surveys & session you are running? We would hope to
    have the notes of this session to you by Monday, and ask you to provide any
    feedback by Friday, as we are conscious there may have been more you wished to
    say. We’d also encourage you to complete the survey and promote the survey
    round your networks, along with the session on the 2nd. We would hope to be able
    to provide you the feedback on the collated consultation mid-December, it is hard as
    advised, to say a specific date, as we are unsure of needs to support individuals and
    groups to participate.


  19. 4) What would you see as the benefit(s) of good community engagement?

  20. Get people involved; genuine feedback. People take a pride in what’s happening,
    but if they do not feel they are a part of it, it is difficult to get backing. If it is not

    backed by the community; it builds on the belief they will do what they want.
    Recognise the rural side, many feel the council do not understand, there is a
    perception that they are all right, they appear affluent but there are a lot of people in
    our communities, especially in the climate we are in, they are destitute, they may not
    have their homes when we come out of covid. There is also a perception people are
    not listened to; the focus will go elsewhere; if you carry out effective, honest
    consultation people will feel their voices are heard. If you are clear about what you
    are consulting on; clear about what can be influenced and evidenced, how you have
    listened and taken on board, or not the views given, but be clear what you have
    done with their voices. Provide them with the feedback, we asked, you said, we did
    because. But remember all information should be accessible.

  21. I recognise what the other colleagues have experienced; two points - a lot of the
    surveys are laid out in a specific manner not necessarily giving the opportunity to
    say what you wish. You are often pushed into saying yes or no, you are not really
    able to articulate what you want to say. Timing is also critical. A couple of weeks
    ago, we had 75 people attend a meeting in respect of a planning issue. It was still in
    the pre-planning stage, so SC not involved directly and was between the developer
    and the villagers. By the time SC get to the point where they engage, the
    community might feel it is already a done deal. The consultations happen after
    certain decisions would appear to have been taken. The consultation can appear to
    be a box ticking exercise, rather than genuine consultation where people would be
    more likely to get involved. There are various sectors of the community excluded;
    many feel consultations are futile, so will they really get involved? Try to make it
    simple, easy to engage, but try not to limit the ability to drill down to people's true
    views. If using yes, no, tick boxes then create sufficient large space for text to allow
    people to caveat their answers.

  22. Q) Anything missed?

  23. When will we get copy of our input, and copy of the report of collated response to
    draft consultation?

  24. We would aim to have the notes of this evening’s session to you by Monday next
    week. We have another session planned 2nd December, we also have a session
    planned for internal colleagues next week. We have asked our contacts to promote
    the survey and the digital session through their networks. We have offered to
    support individuals and organisations if they would like assistance to have their
    voices heard in this consultation.


  26. We would hope to be able to collate all input into the draft engagement consultation
    and distribute to individuals who participated around 14th December however, we are
    unable to give a fixed date, as there are unknowns with regards additional session
    or supports required. We will ask our colleagues in communications, to promote the
    online session on the 2nd and the survey.