February 2023 Minutes

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Venue – But & Ben
Wednesday 8.02.23 @ 7.30 pm

Attendees: Henry Braid (HB), Margaret Steele (MS), Cyndy Bourbousson (CB), Donnie Watson (DW), Alli Peterson (AP), Graeme and Alison – Police, Rosemary Fraser- Stirling Council, Maria Lucey- Stirling Council Roads, Phil Tait- Amco Giffen and 25 residents

Apologies – David Armstrong (DA)

1. Previous Minutes –January 23. Approved by DW and seconded CB.

2. Police report- February 2023 - Compiled by PC Steven Graham
Antisocial Behaviour- There have been no reports of anti-social behaviour since the last meeting although a car was set on fire in the Dumgoyne area. Enquiries are continuing.
Theft -No thefts have been recorded in the Croftamie area since the last meeting although there was a housebreaking at a farm on the A81 between Ballat Crossroads and Aberfoyle.
Road Safety-Due to the flooded road, a vehicle came off the carriageway on the A811 approx. 100 yards from the Drymen Bridge towards Gartocharn. No injury and minor damage to the vehicle sustained.

Livestock worrying

What are livestock attacks and worrying?
Livestock attacks and worrying is the phrase used when a dog attacks or worries livestock animals in rural and farmland areas.
This crime usually takes place in the countryside and is a particular problem when dogs, even those that are well trained, are off their leads or are roaming without an owner or person in charge with them. In doing so, they often scare or attack livestock animals.
Whilst many owners are unaware of the impact their dogs are having on livestock, it is their responsibility to ensure attacks and worrying don't happen. They should ensure their dog doesn't disturb or attack these animals, otherwise there are consequences under the law if it does occur.

Reporting livestock attacks and worrying

Call 999 if the crime is ongoing and animals are being injured. To report a crime which isn't ongoing call 101.

Livestock attacks and worrying and the law

The Dogs (Protection of Livestock) (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 2021 came into force on 5 November 2021 to tackle the issue of out of controls dogs attacking and worrying livestock.
Under this law, the term "livestock" is wide ranging and includes cattle, sheep, goats, swine (pigs/boars), horses, camelids (alpacas/lamas), ostriches, farmed deer, enclosed game birds or poultry.

What are the consequences of livestock attacks and worrying?

Under this new law, owners of dogs that attack or worry livestock can be fined up to £40,000 or even sent to prison for up to 12 months.

Advice for dog owners and land managers

Dog owners
It's important for dog owners to be aware that livestock are valuable assets and any harm to them could significantly affect the livestock owners livelihood.
There's a number of things owners can do to reduce the chances of their dog committing a livestock attack or worrying crime.
When in the countryside, be wary of your dog approaching other animals. Try to stop your dog coming into contact with livestock. Remember, in the countryside, it may not always be obvious when animals are around.
If you're in an area where livestock are nearby, always keep your dog in your sights and maintain control over them. If you can't guarantee this, use a lead.It's important to be aware that under certain circumstances, land owners can shoot your dog if it is attacking or causing distress to their animals.

Land managers

There's a number of things you can do to minimise the threat of your livestock becoming a victim of worrying and attacks.
Appropriate signage can make walkers in the area aware of their responsibilities and can suggest alternative routes if you're worried of an attack or worrying.
You'll also need to think about public access near your land and any risks that this can cause to your animals.
Community Engagement and Reassurance
It is important to you to have community officers who you know, who are accessible and who address local problems.
PC’s Steven Graham and Graeme McNulty are the Ward Officers for the Forth and Endrick area. They are based at Balfron Police Office and can be contacted at the office, on 101, or at ForthEndrickCPT@scotland.police.uk. It is recommended that this email address is used by the local community for email contact however this should not be used to report crimes.
Please remember that we regularly publish useful information and updates on social media, including appeals for information, updates about road closures and crime prevention advice. Our Facebook and Twitter pages can be found at;
www.facebook.com/forthvalleypolicedivision www.facebook.com/policescotland www.twitter.com/stirlingpol

Meeting comments

Police were unaware of an incident at Pirnie Hall where a neighbour reported people smashing the remaining windows of the property. They were also unaware of a vehicle theft which has happened the previous evening.

3. Presentation/feedback on Catter burn Bridge – Stirling Council & Amoc Giffen Bridge

Contractors- Presentation on the bridge progress to date by Phil Tait.More piling was required – so there are18 piles extra. Piling is now complete.
Working below to prop the structure starting next week to allow them to excavate the structure.

Road opening towards the 16th April – aware of Easter weekend is before this. Full road opening will be mid May.

Q asked re traffic calming – this has still to be looked at.
Q- to open for pedestrians? Has to stay closed at the moment due to increase risk to contractors.
Q- re the water running towards Gulleys. Drainage is in place and the contractor will not repair this
Q- footpath from Dalnair? Only access point from Dalnair. SC will install a footway on the structure – but from the bridge to Dalnair? This was part of the commitment from the developer. This was part of the planning consent. Crossing onto the public Pedestrian bridge was proposed- SC are looking for the funding from developer then they will install a downstream footway on the existing structure.
Q- developer for Dalnair have delayed on their promises made.
Rosemary confirmed that there is work ongoing to rectify the developers providing what was agreed. And to rectify historic non payments. At the Environment and Transport committee there was a briefing on what we ask from developers for future planning.
Q- should the contributions be upfront in the future? Guidance is being sought on how to deal with the contribution from the developer.
Footpath is in place through the woods which has not been maintained.
Dalnair had planned to install a footbridge for the approx 60 people living there.
Residents have written to the council but no reply received.
Q- Why have the developers not been held to task?
There has never been a pavement just a footpath through the woods.
Q- What can the council do to hold the developers.
Commitment by the developer – this has not been upheld. How can the council sign off a planning application within safe access.
Dalnair residents can provide their details to HB/MS and we can provide updates from Rosemary.
Q- Killearn had pavements made before their houses were built. This was discussed at last months Killearn CC – developers can build houses but can’t sell them until the footpath has been installed.
PT confirmed that the Pedestrian footpath will open when two way bridge is opened.

4. Planning Report – CB

Nothing new on the planning sites.
Objects date has closed for Pirnie Hall planning app.
Phased interim phase response will be submitted by CCC by 10 Feb.
Comments will be reviewed and the first meeting will be May.
HB read out parts of CCC response to the Plans and full details were circulated round the meeting for all to read. (see attached)
CCC needs to reflect the thoughts of the community so further comments would be sought further on in this meeting.
MS has requested a Meeting re the C Class roads network- Neil Pirrie at SC. MS indicated that the current comments on the Pirne Hall plans are not true reflection of the current usage. MS to have a site meeting to walk round the area. If there is an accident elsewhere this is the diverted route which increases traffic further. Roads department don’t have influence to stop/ help planning.
Q- can residents also attend this meeting? Yes. Let MS know if you want to attend.

5. Roads Update - DW

SC nothing in the area- usual Diversions
Potholes in the area. Make sure you report them – roads section on the SC website.

6. Treasurer Update

Balance of account- £1668.47
Flowers have been given to Barbara from the CC as a thank you for the Christmas event and use of the But & Ben venue monthly.

7. Stirling Council Update – Councillor Rosemary Fraser

Environment and transport net zero meeting was last week. Different areas looking to introduce less cutting of grass and they will tell us where this is. Looking to plant more trees.
Local Place Plans- Email has been received with a “How to” pack.
Good info included and you can attend the meeting and go along and find out more. What do we want and what could be developed?
Local Place Plan becomes Local Development plan. Gives us a stronger voice in the future.
RF met today with McGills buses- constructive meetings-McGills have taken over from First Buses. X10 is getting refurbed buses. Driver shortages but they have now recruited. RF has asked if there could be any possibility of buses reinstated again in Croftamie. Could be smaller buses in certain areas.
Young people can get free bus pass.
Open to working constructively.
Comment on a recent question about the Car parked on pavement in Croftamie - enforcers cannot do anything if it on the pavement until the road tax runs out.
RF asked re DRT is it being used. There has been an increase to the Mileage rate and min journey payments. Transport conversation to be held tomorrow.
Leaflets could help. Getting high school kids home is an issue.
Councillor will be available prior to the Community Council meetings – 7pm til 7.30pm- if you wanted to discuss anything.
HB- flooding at the Distillery has not been resolved and is a constant one lane road. RF- to raise this again.

8. LL&TNP - No Update.

9. HB referred back to the Pirnie Hall planning and took questions and asked if any further comments were to be added.
Q- what is the hierarchy for these plans? Planning officer will send determination letter but then the request will go to the Planning Access Committee as it is a Major application.
CC have objected so it will go to a Committee who may do a site visit and CC can attend the hearing and do a presentation.
It was agreed that CC will do a presentation.
CC final objection will go in on Friday 10th.
It was discussed that another letter should be submitted that says that if the recommendation is approved that the CC would like a Section 75 agreement installed. This is a Legal binding agreement- if developers got approval –to include conditions.
We need to write to the planning officer to request a visit to the planning committee.

However, Developer is planning to sell off the units which could make the section 75 more difficult.

Request to be made:
If the application does go to committee and is approved the community council would like to suggest to following items for inclusion in a section 75 agreement.
1. No works to begin on site outside the footprint of the original buildings prior to substantial completion, occupation and operation of the original buildings.
2. No works to begin on site, including no enabling works, no roads, no tree felling, no ground clearance, no fencing until a full detailed drainage design has been signed off by SEPA and necessary legal agreements are in place with adjoining landowners.
3. The new road layout should be redesigned to stop the damage to the site boundary and tree lined avenue of the C118 road.
4. The commuted sum developer contributions should be paid in advance of works. The community would welcome early discussion with the National Park regarding which part of the contribution would be applied within the Croftamie community area.
5. The environs of Pirniehall as identified by the applicant by the red line on the planning drawings shall remain in sole ownership.
6. No further development to be permissible beyond that included in the schedule of accommodation. No extensions, no additional buildings, sheds etc.

Developer contribution to the Village will be required. Do we ask that the contribution is paid up front.

Single ownership in planning but the plots will be sold as leaseholds. Ask that it is in section 75.

Q how long would this be?
In planning app it say that Pirnie Hall Tourist Resort Management Company will manage the bins etc. No extra developments allowed.

Q- if currently no tree felling allowed why has some work started. A – this is a separate application for two pods by a neighbour. The work that has started is not to do with the large application.
Planning had been requested for four pods and two have been withdrawn for now.

Suggest as there is huge opposition we are pro active looking at further stages. If the developer withdraw current request, they will come back in a revised form. Will the new Place plan will be in place by then.
Planning consultant and developer believes that this application fits with the place plan but the community do not agree.

Google map pictures of Pirnie Hall were circulated for info.

Q can a section 75 include a footpath?
It was agreed that the attached Amended Objection from the CC will be sent on Fri which will include the section 75 comments.
MS offered to receive private comments if anyone wanted to do so rather than make comment at this public meeting.

10. Outstanding points from last meeting

Participation Requests – 20-21-002, Pavements & 20.2.003 Speeding – ongoing
Croftamie Nursery – What is the Communities view on the building future
Alistair Strong ( Comm Trust) and HB will attend a meeting withTracey Mills, Stirling Council.
Q-What are their plans restricted covenants when the ground was gifted. Q- what about the Hut, TV, chairs etc.
If they are going to sell it- where can we go to Vote noting that there is no bus service.
Comment made that Drymen library looking for a new site- but this would only work if there was a bus route.
There was previous talk – would the community want to take it on and run it.
HB- what would the community like done with the building?
Q- is there any appetite for the nursery to be community owned. No positive response received.

Views need to be clear and included in the Place plan as it could be sold to a developer.

Local Place Plans, LLL&TP & Stirling Council update - Community Trust – AE. We can receive support from the Park and Stirling Council.
Invitation from Stirling Council to a Local Place Plan online (Teams) meeting on Feb 20th at 6.30pm. Anne will attend on behalf of the Trust.
Questionnaires will be issued and interviews held. Engagement meetings will be held. HB encourgaged us to complete the surveys. See attached.

11. Correspondence Received

Letter received re Shed which is on Non business rates. Non-Business Rates Ref 17037298022330 – Store at Croftamie Nursery

Community Council Elections will be held in 2023 and 6 community Councillors required for Croftamie. Therefore there will be No AGM required this year.
Vote would be needed if more than 6 people put their names forward. HB emphasised the importance of the CC and gave the example that the improved to our pavements only happened because of MS.
Q asked how do existing councillors feel but no comment made at the morment. MS to put flyers in the Bus stops.

Please note, the following with regards to Nominations:-
If Nomination submissions are less than the minimum Membership for your Community Council, the Community Council will not move forward to the Inaugural meeting and not be formed.
If Nomination submissions are between the minimum and maximum Membership for your Community


  • Publication of Notice of Election- Monday 3 April
  • Nominations to be submitted by (no later than 4pm)- Monday 17 April
  • Nominations to be withdrawn by (no later than 4pm)- Tuesday 18 April
  • Arrange Inaugural Meetings (where no ballot required)- From Monday 24 April
  • Issue of Ballot Papers -w/c Monday 29 May
  • Counting of Ballot Papers - Monday 19 June to Wednesday 28 June
  • Publication of results- Thursday 29 June
    Arrange Inaugural Meetings (where ballot held)- From Monday 3 July


Any Other Business –

  • Croftamie Nursery follow up -Enquiry Ref 2301263 Teams Meeting- Tracey Mills on 9.2.23 HB & Croftamie Trust
  • Feedback from Scottish Communities Climate Action Network – Meeting CCT. Sion attended and there was talk about climate change with other groups to get discussions going. Sion can attend the next meeting on behalf of Croftamie.
  • Q around the community benefits offered by Amco Giffen- waiting on budget amount. Suggestions received were pavements to Dalnair and scrapping back the pavement at the T- junction at the crossroads.

Confirmation of next Meeting –

Wednesday 8.3.2023 AT 7.30 pm Location But & Ben